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Victory 09 – Kirmaier or MvR?

Event ID: 694

20 November 1916

South of Grandcourt

Source ID: 61

Inside the victories of Manfred von richthofen - Volume 1, James F. Miller, Aeronaut Books, 2016

ISBN: 978-1-935881-42-1

Evidence suggests Jasta 2 Staffelführer Stefan Kirmaier may have been the actual victor over 2767. He and Richthofen were each credited with a victory on this day but RFC records indicate only one machine was lost over the lines in the manner of 2767. Richthofen and Kirmaier’s victories were claimed within ten minutes and two miles of each other – i.e. nearly simultaneously and collocated – and nine years after the war Clarke stated that he and Cunningham had been attacked by five German airplanes. It is unknown if Richthofen lost 2767 in the clouds and then presumed its crash, or if Kirmaier attacked 2767 after Richthofen and each had not seen or discounted the other’s attack in the fog of war. In any event, it seems both men received credit for downing the same airplane.

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